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My home built metal DDR pad (Part IV)
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pooface
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6340. PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also will be finishing my mat that I began building like a month ago probably tomorrow. I'll post pictures, but don't expect anything special, its just a Riptide mat.
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Silenkiller
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6341. PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It plays totally fine. Very accurate. I'm incredibly happy lol.
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Travelsonic
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6342. PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I changed the left and down arrow sensors on my pad, and strangely, now the pad works perfectly, aside from getting used to flatfooting/moving differently I get no pad boos/misses/etc.

WTF?
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Travelsonic
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6343. PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for the double-post, as this is pissing me off greatly.

My other arrows have the sensors built the same way: Foam on either side of the sensor lengthwise to support the plexiglass and prevent the sensors from sliding about, and foam on each remaining side to prevent foward/backward sensor sliding. The layout is 4 sensors, on each side of the arrow well, just like in the arcade, minus the brackets on top. The Up, Down, and Right arrows function perfectly, yet the left arrow randomly sticks, or stops responding all together. The sensors I tested individually and are in good condition, responding well, and all the wiring is soldered very strongly and still in tact. What the bloody hell is going on?
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Weston
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6344. PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're absolutely certain that the sensors are working correctly, it may be the controller's fault.

1) If you can, try to detach the sensors on the left arrow all together. If your controller is still giving you phantom steps, you'll know the sensors aren't the problem.
2) Sometimes wires may get loose that you attached to the controller, causing them to touch the circuit somewhere.
3) There may have been a soldering job that connects two places of the circuit in a way that was not intended, giving the ground path weird signals.
4) Depending on the switch design, the contacts can act as a capacitor and build up an electrical charge which when released can damage the controller. When this happens, some buttons on the controller will not respond appropriately.
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wrecktified
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6345. PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travelsonic wrote:
The layout is 4 sensors, on each side of the arrow well, just like in the arcade, minus the brackets on top.


From what little I know about the way arcade sensors work (I read Konami's patent for DDR on Google), I would say that you are going to want some sort of bracket on top of each sensor. I'm betting that there is a reason those brackets are found both in the arcade DDR/ITG platforms and the Blueshark. I don't know the exact reason, but if I had to guess I would say that the sensors are probably not equally sensitive over the whole body of the sensor and that the brackets direct the force of your weight on to the "sweet spot" at the middle of the sensor.

I would also think you are going to want to have some sort of material that limits the amount of travel your plexiglass has. If you notice the Blueshark pad has some sort of wood (cork maybe?) that prevents the arrow panel from going down farther than is necessary to just barely trigger the sensor. I think the arcade pad has a similar rubber stop on each corner. This will make your sensors less likely to stick as you won't be crushing them down so much. Again, I'm doing educated speculating here so this whole post could be wrong, it's just an idea I had about your problem.
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Kalek
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6346. PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my pad mostly finished now. There are still a few problems though:

-wiring is shoddy (my fault completely, I was lazy when I soldered to the softpad control box -- going to have a friend rewire to a 3rd party controller because I'll be able to use the controls on it)
-sensors autofire occasionally (using matrix style sensors) -- going to attempt adding spacers and see what happens
-bar is wobbly and so is the 2x6 under it -- probably can be fixed by adding more screws, only 3 were used to connect the 2x6 from the bottom
-panels aren't recessed enough, the pad feels mostly flat although its enough that I can still feel my way around
-a lot (like 1/3) of the screws went in odd directions when I screwed on the corner brackets and as such a random bracket is always falling off of the up arrow
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slvrshdw
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6347. PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From what little I know about the way arcade sensors work (I read Konami's patent for DDR on Google), I would say that you are going to want some sort of bracket on top of each sensor. I'm betting that there is a reason those brackets are found both in the arcade DDR/ITG platforms and the Blueshark. I don't know the exact reason, but if I had to guess I would say that the sensors are probably not equally sensitive over the whole body of the sensor and that the brackets direct the force of your weight on to the "sweet spot" at the middle of the sensor.

I would also think you are going to want to have some sort of material that limits the amount of travel your plexiglass has. If you notice the Blueshark pad has some sort of wood (cork maybe?) that prevents the arrow panel from going down farther than is necessary to just barely trigger the sensor. I think the arcade pad has a similar rubber stop on each corner. This will make your sensors less likely to stick as you won't be crushing them down so much. Again, I'm doing educated speculating here so this whole post could be wrong, it's just an idea I had about your problem.

uh...pretty much the top brackets are just for looks really..
they arent really REQUIRED or anything, BUT something has to keep the panels in place, like a screw (pretty much what stoli did)

the wood/rubber stuff like the blueshark/arcade pads is there to make the sensors work better (duh)



as for kalek:
what the ^%&* only 3 screws for the BAR...what were you thinking!?
hahaha, just kidding around, but 3 is like..just wow. it would have to be wobbly like that laugh.gif

with the senor autofire problem: first thing is to check and make sure you didnt screw the panels down too far causing them to be "on" all the time
after that, put the spacers in.
and the recessed thing..i think you know how to fix it biggrin.gif
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wrecktified
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6348. PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slvrshdw wrote:
uh...pretty much the top brackets are just for looks really..
they arent really REQUIRED or anything, BUT something has to keep the panels in place, like a screw (pretty much what stoli did)

I thought it was pretty clear by the context of my post and the setup Travelsonic described in his, that the brackets we were talking about are like these, and not the corner brackets. But let me clarify that everywhere I say "bracket" I'm talking about the sensor brackets.

slvrshdw wrote:
the wood/rubber stuff like the blueshark/arcade pads is there to make the sensors work better (duh)

The reasoning behind the arrow stops and sensor brackets on the arcade and Blueshark platforms is far from being obvious. I just tried to provide some reasons as to why Travelsonic might want to include these in his pad design.
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Travelsonic
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6349. PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odd problem is, it is ONLY the left arrow on my pad having problems, the other arrows are perfect, and basically have the same layout.
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Kalek
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6350. PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slvrshdw wrote:
as for kalek:
what the ^%&* only 3 screws for the BAR...what were you thinking!?
hahaha, just kidding around, but 3 is like..just wow. it would have to be wobbly like that laugh.gif

with the senor autofire problem: first thing is to check and make sure you didnt screw the panels down too far causing them to be "on" all the time
after that, put the spacers in.
and the recessed thing..i think you know how to fix it biggrin.gif

haha I know NOTHING about building and the person who was helping me said three should be ok *shrug*

I'll add more

but its more like

3 connecting from the bottom + 8 holding the bar on from the top


as for sensors, I have loosened the screws on the corner brackets so I know its not that, but spacers will probably do it


aside from autofiring and a wobbly bar, I am happy with it.
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ChilliumBromide
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6351. PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 well-placed screws are sufficient to hold a bar fin on.

But yours aren't well-placed, I'm assuming.

If you can get me some pictures of your pad, I can probably help you redo the back so that the bar doesn't wobble.

Otherwise, I can list of a different solution for each possible design you might have. E15.gif
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AJAX the Insomniac
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6352. PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: Nvm
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neuter_man
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6353. PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kalek wrote:
slvrshdw wrote:
as for kalek:
what the ^%&* only 3 screws for the BAR...what were you thinking!?
hahaha, just kidding around, but 3 is like..just wow. it would have to be wobbly like that laugh.gif

with the senor autofire problem: first thing is to check and make sure you didnt screw the panels down too far causing them to be "on" all the time
after that, put the spacers in.
and the recessed thing..i think you know how to fix it biggrin.gif

haha I know NOTHING about building and the person who was helping me said three should be ok *shrug*

I'll add more

but its more like

3 connecting from the bottom + 8 holding the bar on from the top


as for sensors, I have loosened the screws on the corner brackets so I know its not that, but spacers will probably do it


aside from autofiring and a wobbly bar, I am happy with it.



Mine wobbles a ton, though I have like... four or five bolts, along with a support system that we had to build. Still isn't too nice, but it gets the job done. Next pad though, it'll be good.
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neuter_man
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6354. PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody know how conductive dibond is? Stuff's damn sweet, specially the brushed aluminum. Figured it wouldn't be bad for a design similar to Devout's, but I have some different theories on the way they've done some of the stuff.

Another question, anybody have any idea what kind've voltage the soft pad control box puts out to the leds (on the ones that have them)?

I'd check, but I don't have a voltage meter X:
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hydrogen_wv
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6355. PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've been working on making my own pads, and have learned a couple important lessons.... the first being that 2x4s are not actually 2" by 4"... but that's just a little cosmetic issue which will be fixed.

Anyway... I started a new thread about my adventure, but was told it should go here, but anyway... I am building my own pads with 3 controllers each... 2 xbox (1 switched to usb) and 1 gamecube. I don't own a ps2.

I found a diagram and list of solder points for the xbox controller on the internet, based on the TP## points. The gamecube controller, on the other hand, I can't find any info on.... Anyone have any info on wiring up a gamecube controller? That's the one thing keeping me from completing my pads... well, except the time i still have left to put into them...
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Ghettobarney
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6356. PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ANGER. Yesterday I got my first AAA on my pad, today the down and left arrows randomly trigger and I have no idea why. There's no way it's the pad so I'm gonna assome it's the controllers fault so I'm just gonna buy a softpad and use the controller from that.
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ChilliumBromide
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6357. PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2x6's. E1.gif

My life is happy.

2x6's = 1.5"x5.5"
5.5"x2=11"
biggrin.gif

In other words, I've finally solved the problem I've been working on with the DT200's for the last month, for $3 per pad. E4.gif

I've got to get up early tomorrow, so maybe I'll take a couple hours to work on getting the prototype fully assembled, then I'll start shamelessly promoting myself again. E1.gif


Hydrogen: I can't answer your question, but it would help if people knew what make your GC controller is. Is it the one that comes with Mario Mix?
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hydrogen_wv
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6358. PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.. by controller, I mean an actual controller, not a dance pad. It's a standard Nintendo brand gamecube controller.
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devout
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6359. PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neuter_man wrote:
Anybody know how conductive dibond is? Stuff's damn sweet, specially the brushed aluminum. Figured it wouldn't be bad for a design similar to Devout's, but I have some different theories on the way they've done some of the stuff.

Another question, anybody have any idea what kind've voltage the soft pad control box puts out to the leds (on the ones that have them)?

I'd check, but I don't have a voltage meter X:


I've never heard of dibond before, but from aloca's website it looks like it won't conduct because it says "two pre-painted sheets". Of course that might not be accurate for the brushed finish ones, and even if it is painted, its nothing a little solvent or sand paper wouldnt take off. In that case, at most it'll conduct in the x-y axes but not the z axis. (Which wouldnt be a problem for my design, but might be for others.).

I'd be more concerned about the stiffness of the pads, which (if your design would require them to flex, like mine) is probably too stiff. (The thinnest brushed finish being 3mm thick)
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